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DK

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PostSubject: Midline Intricacies   Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:47 am






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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:41 pm

Pushing a Flagger

As a ranger I will be pushing flaggers, and the following is what you should be doing as a mesmer and water ele

Water Ele: snare stuff falling back on me, most importantly their snares, I can handle damage with Lightning Reflexes, Natural Stride and Crippling Shot.

Primarily, I need the water ele snared, especially since the nerf to cripshot.

Mesmer: Shutdown their shutdown(or cleans). This means assist the water ele in any form possible. Rupt holy veil and Cure Hex. You can divert the mesmer, and ranger (most likely mesmer, ranger might be falling back) You can counter cure hex and holy veil by putting mind wrack over whatever snare, and you can also counter a pre veil with your strips. Know which target to look for, situations will vary.

the mesmer can also push up a bit to shutdown the snares.

the prot or fuse will also probably have to push up versus a decent guild.
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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:51 pm

Using Your Shutdown

Use it situationally, don't just spam it. Such as the aforementioned flagger push, or if we're pushing a flag.

THIS IS WHERE OTHER PEOPLE FUCKING TALKING COMES IN.

tell the midline what's bothering you.

also CALL WHEN YOU'RE PUSHING A FUCKING FLAG.

I thought capslock and profanity would give those points emphasis.
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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:26 pm

As a sensei to like all flaggers everywhere, call that shit and you get G points. I maxed the title by calling all the time. why do you think im retired...
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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:05 pm

DK wrote:
Using Your Shutdown

Use it situationally, don't just spam it. Such as the aforementioned flagger push, or if we're pushing a flag.

THIS IS WHERE OTHER PEOPLE FUCKING TALKING COMES IN.

tell the midline what's bothering you.

also CALL WHEN YOU'RE PUSHING A FUCKING FLAG.

I thought capslock and profanity would give those points emphasis.

Dk is such an angry person. he scares me.

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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:26 pm

LOUD NOISES!

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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:50 am

wanna hear something uplifting?

top 200 guilds make the exact same mistakes we do. They play their bars better, but you don't really see pro stuff till you hit top 100.

Know what that means?

If we played, we'd be top 200 in no time!

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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:01 am

I like that.

Dibs flagger.

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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:10 am

*facedesk*
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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:40 am

i think its facepalm Dk...
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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:37 am

facedesk is beyond facepalm
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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:23 am

not if your hand is under your desk!

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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:12 pm



beat that.
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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:29 pm

also move this to tactical gvg
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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:52 pm

should probably get it up to standard before I do that.

I'm not clear on what you're trying to say. if it's a specific situational sketch, it's way too loosely defined, and if it's not, then you need to add some variables and incorporate back and frontline, even if it's just by mention.

DK wrote:
Pushing a Flagger

As a ranger I will be pushing flaggers, and the following is what you should be doing as a mesmer and water ele

Water Ele: snare stuff falling back on me, most importantly their snares, I can handle damage with Lightning Reflexes, Natural Stride and Crippling Shot.

Primarily, I need the water ele snared, especially since the nerf to cripshot.

Mesmer: Shutdown their shutdown(or cleans). This means assist the water ele in any form possible. Rupt holy veil and Cure Hex. You can divert the mesmer, and ranger (most likely mesmer, ranger might be falling back) You can counter cure hex and holy veil by putting mind wrack over whatever snare, and you can also counter a pre veil with your strips. Know which target to look for, situations will vary.

the mesmer can also push up a bit to shutdown the snares.

the prot or fuse will also probably have to push up versus a decent guild.

Basically what this appears to refer to is team positioning in case of a flagger push.
Assume a scenario where our ranger pushes their flagger, there are, loosely stated, 3 possible common plays:

A) Team is fighting your side of the stand, holding or pushing your flagger. Ranger sees opportunity and slips through. In this scenario either they: 1. Have something follow the ranger, making your stand cap easier. 2. Let the ranger go, making your flagger push more successful.

B) Both teams are more or less equal, but your main team is taking alot of pressure or you want positional advantage at stand. Ranger pushes through, something follows, giving your monks a breather and allowing your team to push up slightly, thereby making covering your ranger who is pushing their flagger, easier in turn.

C) You just want/need the flag advantage, and create an opening for your ranger to slip through. If they collapse, use the collapse to gain ground, making the final walk to get the flag in costly and dangerous for them.

Now the push itself will have to be carried or covered by the rest of the team. Not just the midline, though their roles are important. The other team can respond to a push by your ranger(if he's generating enough threat) in two typical ways:

1. They send back a monk to clean/redbar the flagger.

2. They send back a form of snares, damage or shutdown to disrupt the pusher. (see 3 forms of denial below)


Opposed to that, your team has the same 3 ways to deny or hinder their attempts at collapsing, whether it's damage or healing:

I. Positional control: consists of Snares, Bodyblocks, KD's etc.

II. Disruption/shutdown: Consists of interrupts, diversions, blinds, etc.

III. Kill Threat


Single most important thing: pre-emptively denying them a collapse. Use all 3 methods to keep them from collapsing anything. Regardless of whether your ranger kills or simply stalls their flagger, you gain a massive edge on flags. However this won't always work.

In case they do make a clean getaway, let us analyze those 2 collapsing possibilities from before, and assume that your I, II and III listed above were unsuccesful in keeping them from collapsing initially:


Situation 1: They collapse a monk.

If they send back a monk, then their ability to clean/heal/prot at stand team is severely decreased. Often you will see bad teams taking this route, or very good teams that have enough shutdown on your offense that they can spare a monk.

In response to this you will be mainly using your Killthreat at stand: Start pressuring like a madman. Spike and push hard, making them regret losing half their backline. One of two things will happen:

Their monk leaves. Massive pressure creates kills or wipes at the stand, you gain 5-10 rating and a bunch of faction.

Their monk hesitates, because he cannot afford to leave. Their collapse typically fails, and either they switch to one of the variants further below, or they lose their flagger and flag, in which case you gain 5-10 rating and a bunch of faction.

Situation 2: They send back snares, damage, or disruption.

The other collapse variety for this play. Usually the smarter one, as it yields less advantages for the pushing team. It's also considerably more complex to respond to. However, you can still work it to gain a massive benefit. However, there are a lot of conditions:

Disrupt/Snare/Damage option without killthreat on the ranger (Generally optimal, kills & positional adv.)

If they just sent back a form of denial (I, II or III from above), is your ranger in danger of dying? if your ranger is okay, and you have the ability to push kills, play for kills on either stand or ranger end. If the ranger has the chance to kill the flagger despite their collapse, play for disruption at main. If it doesnt, play for kills at stand. Like above, keep their monks from collapsing.

Damage option with killthreat on the ranger (Advantageous in terms of positioning, but not as instant win as the above options)

Is your ranger in danger of dying to their damage? (type III. denial) If yes, then push for it, and hard. Not just the monks either, the entire team. Play heavily disruptive on your way to the pusher, so your monks don't get hindered en route. You can push up with slightly more aggression, because their damage is away from main. However, haste is necessary because the odds of your ranger dying are greater against type III compared to types I or II, and it means their shutdown is still on your main team. IMPORTANT: Watch that they don't split off one of their own players during your push. If needs be, let the ranger die to stop this from happening, because you will be forcing yourself to split 2-3 ways during a push. Little jokes like that wipe teams.

Disrupt/Snare option with killthreat on the ranger (Generally the least beneficial, slight positional gain)

Is your ranger in danger of dying to their disruption/positional control player? (lawl Ranger Danger..) If it is, you basically do the same thing as before, except the kill threat on your main team is higher, whereas the kill threat on your ranger is slightly lower. When opting to save the ranger, forget about kills for the moment, you're now aiming for position. Play heavily defensive on your way to your ranger so the monks don't have their blue bars explode while pushing. Shutdown goes on the disruption, damage and snares that they will be putting on your monks or defensive characters (e.g. they're playing for a kill on the ranger now by stalling main).

Alternatively use the lack of denial at your main team to push quick kills while your monks walk up. This is difficult against a strong backline, however, and can be more costly than defensive play. Highly situational choice.

In the end, all these options gain you a positional advantage, and they all take the heat off your base and flagger. So there really is no reason not to use it. Just be wary of a countersplit while you're supporting your own.

Know that all this is only a small part of the strategic equasion, and while one could construct, say, a flow chart incorporating every single detail of GvG strat, this would be too big a task for me. Razz

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Last edited by Kay vs Forum on Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:53 pm

fine

I just wanted to point to stuff that probably wasn't getting done
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PostSubject: Re: Midline Intricacies   Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:26 pm

Oh right.

In that case, yeah, Brain + Bar = Profit. If you've gotten to the point where you're playing GvG I consider it safe to assume that people know the basic means to achieving something like controlling movement.

Snare goes onto whatever you want to keep in place. Cover goes on that. Push up so you can control every aspect of their team if they're starting to collapse while having easy access to your ranger.

Seeing as it's a ranger, if any single thing collapsing can kill him so fast that your monks arent there in time, then the ranger was doing something wrong.

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